Author Topic: Flyer Chippy thread  (Read 5027 times)

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Offline Bob

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Flyer Chippy thread
« on: Saturday March 04, 2006, 09:35:56 UTC »
For those that haven't seen it theres a fun thread here..     http://forums.flyer.co.uk/viewtopic.php?p=289661#289661

Offline andyr

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Flyer Chippy thread
« Reply #1 on: Saturday March 04, 2006, 10:31:37 UTC »
Small world innit    :wink:

Offline DGH

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Flyer Chippy thread
« Reply #2 on: Sunday March 05, 2006, 20:38:40 UTC »
Good Link Bob, ta.  8)
Ahhh Chippies.....

Roy Travis

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Flyer Chippy thread
« Reply #3 on: Monday March 06, 2006, 01:05:56 UTC »
I enjoyed reading the link, but noticed something that conflicts with my endorsement training on the Chipmunk.
I was advised not to side slip with flaps extended.

Offline Bob

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Flyer Chippy thread
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday March 07, 2006, 11:59:00 UTC »
I've checked the T10 Study guide (TC250262) and a/c manual and can't find anything about sliping with flap, I've done it but maybe it puts too big a load on the flap. If that is the case I would have expected it to be in the manual.(unless I missed it!)

Roy Travis

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Flyer Chippy thread
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday March 08, 2006, 03:36:01 UTC »
Firstly, I should apologise for getting this thread off its original subject. However the question of side slipping with flaps extended seems to be sub ject to a variety of opinions.
I have spoken to several fellow Chippy owners on this side of the world and the concensus is that it is not recommended. The practice is not mentioned in my Flight Manual for the model 21. However the opinions I have listened to are that it puts too much strain on the flap control cables.
The engineer who does the work on my aircraft tells me that the cables are light weight and if one breaks you are left with differential flap extension. Not a good situation. I guess that means that it is not prohibited but again not recommended unless really necessary.

Offline Bob

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Flyer Chippy thread
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday March 08, 2006, 08:50:11 UTC »
Have a look at the info on the training thread, I'm not saying its a good thing, but the RAF used to do it!

chipmunkbob

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Flyer Chippy thread
« Reply #7 on: Friday April 07, 2006, 17:19:00 UTC »
Let me clear up some things that have been said here...

First off a slip with full flap down to the roundout in a Chippie is magic. But then again I have nearly 400 hours in them. And I bet that I'm a "youngin'" here hour-wise.

Secondly if the guy who does maintenance on your airplane says that in a flap cable failure one flap will stay down while the other pops up I would almost be looking for another engineer. This couldn't be farther from the truth. First off the cables are pretty stout. Not as huge as the ones going to our rudders (!) but still adequate to get the job done. If one cable breaks both flaps are spring loaded and will pop up. It was designed to work this way. No worries there mate!

And just how do I know this? Well... One of the first things to break on my airplane when I bought her back in 1999 was the flap cable. I was on short final to my home airport, pulled full flap (yes I was below 70) and "clunk!" - no flaps. The flap handle was limp and both flaps were up. In fact I flew around for the next couple of weeks flapless while we sourced another cable.

So I hope this sheds some light on the subject.

Offline Dean Cross

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Flyer Chippy thread
« Reply #8 on: Friday April 07, 2006, 20:03:36 UTC »
Bob,
Sounds sensible to me, but what do I know?
DC

chipmunkbob

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Flyer Chippy thread
« Reply #9 on: Friday April 07, 2006, 20:07:16 UTC »
Oh. I think you know a lot...

You chose to fly and associate with one of the best airplanes on the planet!  :D

Vince Chadwick

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Flyer Chippy thread
« Reply #10 on: Thursday June 15, 2006, 20:47:56 UTC »
Quote from: chipmunkbob
Let me clear up some things that have been said here...

First off a slip with full flap down to the roundout in a Chippie is magic. But then again I have nearly 400 hours in them. And I bet that I'm a "youngin'" here hour-wise.

Secondly if the guy who does maintenance on your airplane says that in a flap cable failure one flap will stay down while the other pops up I would almost be looking for another engineer. This couldn't be farther from the truth. First off the cables are pretty stout. Not as huge as the ones going to our rudders (!) but still adequate to get the job done. If one cable breaks both flaps are spring loaded and will pop up. It was designed to work this way. No worries there mate!

And just how do I know this? Well... One of the first things to break on my airplane when I bought her back in 1999 was the flap cable. I was on short final to my home airport, pulled full flap (yes I was below 70) and "clunk!" - no flaps. The flap handle was limp and both flaps were up. In fact I flew around for the next couple of weeks flapless while we sourced another cable.

So I hope this sheds some light on the subject.


Sorry, Chipmunkbob, that's not correct. We had a single flap failure on or chippy and got assymetric flap. And the cables are quite small diameter - about the same as bicyle brake cables. I think the cable that broke on yours was the one between the flap lever and the rotating drum from what you say. I hope the following explains.

The flaps are spring-biased to the 'up' position and each is attched by an actuating rod to a 'wheel', which when rotated acts like a crank to pull the flap down against this spring pressure. There is one of these in each wing. These 'crank wheels' are each rotated by a thin cable (one from each wheel) which is attched to the wheel's rim, so when the cable is pulled, the crank wheel rotates about half a turn, and the attached rod pushes the flap down. When the pull on the cable is released, the springs (and air loads, if airbourne) retract the flaps, turning the crank wheels, and reeling in the cable around the wheel's rim. The crank wheel actually comes to rest with the operating rod 'over centre', to lock the flap up. That's why you can stand on the walkway on the retracted flap and the flap doesn't go down under your weight.

These two thin flap actuating cables go to a 'drum' in the fuselage, around which they are wrapped. Roate the drum, and it pulls reels-in the cables, which rotae the crank wheels, thus extending the flaps. The drum is rotated by the action of the cockpit flap lever.

So you pull the lever, the drum is rotated, the cables wound in, which rotates the two 'carnk wheels', one in each wing. This pushes the actuating rod from its over-centre resting position, and on further to lower the flap, eithe fully or to half position, depending on the lever position.

The extended flaps are held extended by the cables. If either of the two thin cables to the 'crank wheels' snaps, you will get assymetric flap. If the cable between the lever and the drum snaps, both flaps will retract.

Hope this helps.

Vince Chadwick.

Roy Travis

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Flyer Chippy thread
« Reply #11 on: Sunday June 18, 2006, 01:36:56 UTC »
Thank you for your contributions Chipmunkbob and Vince Chadwick. I did not expect to raise this much interest in the subject.
Reviewing the opinions so far expressed they are firmly divided into those that do and those that dont. Undoubtedly there is nothing in any of the manuals to suggest that you cannot side slip with flap.
For my part I will continue to follow what I was taught and that is not to do it.
I am relaxed about this approach since I really have no need unless faced with a forced landing when of course I would use whatever it takes to make a successful landing.

chipmunkbob

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Flyer Chippy thread
« Reply #12 on: Sunday June 18, 2006, 04:31:25 UTC »
WOW, this is a pretty OLD thread!!

Anyway that's pretty interesting Vince. Looking back at my A/F log the cable replaced was AS-1387, which is as you stated the one from the flap handle I believe (I don't have a parts manual handy).

I stand corrected.  8)

However, having said this I still would continue the practice of practicing slips with flaps. I do not believe that the air loads applied are of a significant amount to do damage.

Roy, I have no need to slip to a landing either on a regular basis but then again I have no need to engage in aeros on a regular basis either... :wink:

It's all a part of fun and proficiency. And slips in a Chippie are just FUN.

Just my 400+ hour in type experience. YMMV...

Vince Chadwick

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Flyer Chippy thread
« Reply #13 on: Monday June 19, 2006, 09:43:15 UTC »
I've never heard of a restriction on slipping with full flap. I landed at Shobdon a couple of weeks back, aiming for a short final to the hard runway. While on close-in base leg (I fly tight circuits), I saw a Cessna on longer final for that runway. I called 'going around, went to half flap, and started climbing away, whereupon the ground operator offered me the parallel grass runway.

By now I 'd gained some height, but power off, full flap, and a full-rudder slip allowed a precise touchdown on the grass runway as the Cessna floated past to my right for the hard runway.

Compared to a Cub or Citabria, the Chippy doesn't loose that much more height in a slip - that lovely slender, round rear fuselage generates far less drag while slipping than do the slab-sided American types.

Cheers

Vince

Offline Duncan

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Flyer Chippy thread
« Reply #14 on: Monday June 19, 2006, 12:04:02 UTC »
Quote from: Vince Chadwick
that lovely slender, round rear fuselage

Said like a true enthusiast!  :D  :D
A founding member of "Cludgey" Formation!