Topic: Trip in a Spit ???

[keith dunbar]

Here's a thought Cal. Chipmunkees.

Last Saturday at Scone, Gill mentioned that to get a Spitfire up to Perth would cost c. £750.   How about if we /Gill could organise for a two seat Spitfire for next May at Scone to give experienced tail wheel types a short 'Trip in a Spit'.  What might we be willing to contribute to fulfill a lifetime ambition - or is it too outrageous to consider ??

Keith Dunbar
Achiltibuie

[Speechless Two]

That's the one unfulfilled ambition in my flying career!  About 20 years ago I had some dealings with a relation of the late ATA pilot Jackie Moggridge - memory is a bit dim but I think it was her son - and he was going to do a "Jim'll fix it " for me in what was then Nick Grace's ML407.  Sad to say nothing came of it.

My understanding is that in the UK there is about a five year waiting list and the shared cost element for a 45 minute flight works out at £1500+.  Those figures are about 5 years old and came from a third party so I can't vouch for them.  Nothing is too outrageous to consider, but I think the 2008 cost may come as a bit of a shock.

Tony D

[Duncan]

I believe that the Grace Spitfire (the only two seat Spit that was available for passenger trips in the UK) has suffered at the hand of the insurance companies.

The aircraft, I believe, is no longer allowed to be used to provide passenger flights as the insurance premiums for flying passengers on jollies were becoming uneconomical for Carolyn to sustain, and indeed she now requires sponsorship from HSBC just to insure the aircraft to fly!

Unfortunately the days of Spitfire passenger trips in the UK are over, unless someone from the warbird community can tell me otherwise!

[DGH]

I 'believe' that you can do a conversion course on the HFL Irish Spitfire at Duxford if you really want to do it. But I think you'll find they insist on some Harvard time first and that the cost per hour on the Spit is in excess of £2000.

[Berry Vissers]

conversion course on the HFL Irish Spitfire at Duxford

Is this the one that has recently been re-painted in Netherlands Air Force markings? Looks smashing now (sorry DC)!

Excellent idea Keith, but I have a feeling that it is not going to work for the reasons given by the other members. Worth a try or at least a few calls though!

[Chippy Monkey]

I meant that we could possibly get one of the BBMF Spits up for a display for that price BUT not the two seat - I believe the waiting list is much longer now as there has been a lot more restrictions put on such trips - I believe the pilot HAS to hold an ATPL - (need to check) but that is what has happened to groups such as the Grace Spitfire unfortunately . . . . Oh and for something like that you need to add another '0' on to the price I mentioned at least!  I suggest we try to buy Declan a Spitfire as he could fly it

[keith dunbar]

Well,well - my outrageous suggestion seems to have hit an aspirational soft spot.
Thanks for all your comments guys and gals.

It seems to me there are two main problems :-

a) whether it might just be possible to get a two seat Spit to fly in - and if not then this
     'flight of fancy'  is well and truly grounded and
b)  the cost - but that might be do-able if 1) is possible.

Of course its a very long shot but who do we contact /speak to/ hassle to see if 1) is a possibility.  Perhaps Tony D who is in the happy position of being retired and seems to be motivated could find some time for this ?

Just in case we take our eyes of the ball, in my view, the real priority is the help keep the C.C. team well supported and the much loved Chipmunks fed, watered and flying.

However if you have got a sound card and can access this website then just savour the sound of the merlin and imagine it roaring over Scone next year- http://www.spitcrazy.com/spitsound.htm  (click on the image of the Spitfire )

Keith Dunbar
Achiltibuie

[Speechless Two]

Re Keith's suggestion above - apart from other commitments, just at the moment I'm busily "employed" as the organiser of the 815 Naval Air Squadron annual reunion at Yeovilton in September and also I was "volunteered" to find ex-employees and organise the British Caledonian Helicopters "20th Anniversary of Disbanding" reunion in Aberdeen this November, so I can't do justice to another project at the moment!

I do have a contact in the RN Historic Flight - now for real pie in the sky wouldn't a trip in their newly donated two seat Sea Fury be a good alternative?  I'm not sure I could take more than Chipmunk "g" at my age though! Lovely thought but almost certainly all the same problems of cost, availability, insurance etc etc!  Being a former stop and land rather than a land and stop driver, I have no idea whether the Scone runway is long enough for a Sea Fury?  I do agree though that the prime aim is to see the Caledonian Chipmunks continue to please one and all as they do.

Tony D

[Dean Cross]

Good ideas and kind words all.
I would be happy to see our fun develop into something more substantial, only time will tell.
I am fully engaged with work, family commitments and helping our CC lads achieve their respective aviation goals. What little time is left I will give freely.
If I can be of assistance let me know.

All the best,
DC

[Duncan]

I believe the waiting list is much longer now as there has been a lot more restrictions put on such trips - I believe the pilot HAS to hold an ATPL

I 'believe' that you can do a conversion course on the HFL Irish Spitfire at Duxford if you really want to do it. But I think you'll find they insist on some Harvard time first and that the cost per hour on the Spit is in excess of £2000.

Chippy Monkey and DGH raise two very good points.

Passenger trips in two seat Spitfires are now all but extinct.  The only use for 2 seat Spitfires in the UK now is to provide bona fide training as part of a training course.  This is an insurance requirement.

Although LEGALLY the pilot of a Spitfire does not HAVE to hold an ATPL, insurance companies require that only pilots with suitable and substantial experience act as pilot in command of one of these fine warbirds.  As it is so very difficult to gauge "suitable" experience, the holder of an ATPL must have a minimum of an Instrument Rating and 1500 flying hours.  This serves as a good bench mark by which non flying types at insurance companies can define "substantial".

Likewise this does not mean that any jockey with thousands of hours in a Multi Jet Transport Aircraft would be "suitable", as they may have never flown a tailwheel aircraft etc etc.  This is where the local regs of Warbird operators will dictate whether time on relevant training types (Chipmunk/Harvard etc) deems a pilot to have "suitable" experience for insurance purposes.

[Speechless Two]

Coincidentally there is a new thread at PPRuNe here: http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=276190 on the subject of two seat Spitfire flights.  Re the North Wales based aircraft there were a couple of posts:

There was a chap who had a twin spitfire who did flights out of Wales somewhere and Sleap airfield - Anthony someone. You could contact Sleap and ask if they know who it is. My Father really enjoyed it.

and:

Anthony Hodgson owns the N.Wales two seater. He operates under the name of Dragon Flight. Mike Sain at the Shropshire Aero Club will put you in contact with him.

Tony D

[Duncan]

Thanks Tony.

Hopefully if this aircraft is still operating on the "cost share basis", there is hope of more people experiencing these amazing machines!!

The insurance blockers have only been effected in the last 18 months or so, so hopefully if someone has had a trip since then perhaps it still possible!

[keith dunbar]

Here is what Google comes up with

CAN I ARRANGE A FLIGHT IN A SPITFIRE?

There is only a handful of 2-seater Spitfires in the world, and just three of these are flying in the UK. In addition, to be able to offer trial lessons, any aircraft must have a public category licence, and the instructor too must be licensed to take paying passengers. Presently these two conditions are not met for any Spitfire in the UK. So, unfortunately, the chances of arranging a flight in a Spitfire are pretty slim. However it is possible to arrange solo displays for individuals; for more information see the Grace Spitfire website or Anthony Hodgson's PT462 website. The third 2-seat Spitfire is based at East Kirkby and owned by a private collector; it too is occasionally flown at displays.

It doesn't exactly rule it out completely - it might just be possible, but not probable
Does anyone know anything about the Welsh PT 462 or the private one at East Kirkby ??
I guess PT 462 was the one Tony D was writing about. Tantalising stuff !!

Keith

[chipmunkgaosz]

I had the pleasure of sitting in Spitfire Mk XVIII SM845 for 5 minutes at Leuchars in September 2005 thanks to Steve asking Rod if the 'Tiger jock' could indulge a fantasy! The thought of a trip in one - AWESOME! I don't have many back teeth left but I'll willingly commit what there is to further this cause! All power to your elbow Keith and Co.

John F.

[DGH]

Morning,

Unfortunately all of the 2 seater Spits (MJ627, ML407, PT462, IAC161) are operated on a Permit To Fly so buying a ride is strcictly not allowed. The old way around this used to be that you joined a club for a certain fee and got a flight as part of your package but the CAA had a real clamp down on this last year. I'm sure there are still ways around this in private but the days of being able to advertise flights are over, for now.........